In Flickering Myth’s interview with Chris Evans, the Captain America actor addressed the character’s more homosexual interpretations. With Steve Rogers possibly still being a virgin, and his enduring friendship with Bucky Barnes, some believe Cap is gay. Even directors Joe and Anthony Russo describe Civil War as a “love story” between Rogers and Barnes (although they did mean of the fraternal kind).
“That wouldn’t be so bad,” mused Evans, “it’s just never been part of my approach to the character. My subtext didn’t involve that dynamic. I think even with the first Captain America film you see how drawn he is to Peggy Carter. I think in that final scene when I’m putting that plane in the water, he’s far more concerned with not getting to see her again than he is to give his own life.
“Maybe I just didn’t do my damn job very well. But that’s what I was going for. I think it was very clear that Peggy Carter was the first woman not just to give him the time of day, but to believe in him and to give him support and trust and honesty, and all these things I think he was hungry for. And I thought I put all that in the final scene, but maybe I didn’t. Maybe I was just gazing at Sebastian [Stan] too much.”
Do you think a relationship between Rogers and Barnes is still on the cards? Let us know in the comments down below.
Marvel’s “Captain America: Civil War” finds Steve Rogers leading the newly formed team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. But after another incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability, headed by a governing body to oversee and direct the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers, resulting in two camps—one led by Steve Rogers and his desire for the Avengers to remain free to defend humanity without government interference, and the other following Tony Stark’s surprising decision to support government oversight and accountability.
SEE ALSO: Follow all of our Marvel Cinematic Universe coverage here
Captain America: Civil War releases in cinemas Friday April 29 in the UK and May 6th 2016 in the States, with Anthony and Joe Russo (Captain America: The Winter Soldier) directing a cast that includes Marvel Cinematic Universe veterans Chris Evans (Steve Rogers/Captain America), Robert Downey Jr. (Tony Stark/Iron Man), Anthony Mackie (Sam Wilson/Falcon), Jeremy Renner (Clint Barton/Hawkeye), Scarlett Johansson (Natasha Romanoff/Black Widow), Sebastian Stan (Bucky Barnes/The Winter Soldier), Elizabeth Olsen (Wanda Maximoff/Scarlet Witch), Paul Bettany (The Vision), Don Cheadle (James Rhondes/War Machine), Paul Rudd (Scott Lang/Ant-Man), Emily VanCamp (Sharon Carter), Frank Grillo (Brock Rumlow/Crossbones) and William Hurt (General Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross) alongside new additions Chadwick Boseman (Get on Up) as T’Challa/Black Panther, Daniel Bruhl (Rush) as Baron Zemo, Tom Holland (The Impossible) as Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Martin Freeman (Sherlock) as Everett Ross.
Chris Chris Chris says
More like Steve and Tony! You could cut the sexual tension with a knife…
I kid, but I think a large part of Tony’s initial motivation comes from him being jealous of the stronger friendship Steve has with Bucky.
Liv says
in my opinion the elevator scene between cap and bucky had more sexual tension than tony and cap in the whole movie. Some of Steve and Bucky’s iconic quotes seems more like wedding vows: “not without you” – “I’m with you till the end of the line” – “even when I had nothign I had bucky” – ” I heard his name and suddenly I was 16 in brooklyn again” I mean, their love is so intense Marvel had to literally ask the directors to tone it down for this movie
Chio says
For real??? So sad that you don’t know that kind of friendship. 2 friends can love inmensely with nothing more than fraternal love. the “not withtout you” and “I’m with you till the end of the line” for me are pretty normal for 2 best friends.
Rowe says
That argument is only ever used to bash LGBT ships. No one ever said Pepper and Tony were just good friends, no one ever said Thor and Jane were just good friends, no one ever said Steve and Peggy were just good friends. No, this only happens with LGBT ships and it’s blatantly homophobic and transparent. You don’t have to like it but can you acknowledge that Steve and Bucky would’ve been a great LGBT couple that would represent an enormous MAIN superhero as part of the LGBT community for the suicidal/depressed/anxiety riddles LGBT fanbase that’s dying for it?
Numanuma says
Why can’t he be bi?
In all seriousness, they couldn’t have pulled more of a a NO HOMO in Civil War if they’d tried. Steve and Bucky’s scenes went from 11 on the emotion scale in the last movie down to a boring 3. All trailer scenes were recut likewise. Talk about gay panic.
Marvel won’t ever go there. Accept it folks.
Yui says
That is so true and so sad… It cut a lot of the movie emotion aspect… Especially with RDJ doing such a good job. You felt like Evans was so cut out of some scene.
stove barns says
You could see where the
stove barns says
*where there were supposed to be emotional scenes with actual dialogue in the whole structure of the movie but they never actually showed any of it and you are left to fill in the gaps with what we got from TWS to assume that Steve’s feelings are this strong for Bucky and that he would go through all this just to get him back. If I were a new audience member and Civil War was my first MCU movie I would be so confused as to why Steve was doing all this for Bucky, and the plot of the movie does not make sense if you disregard how strongly he feels because that is the driving force of Steve’s entire arc in this film.
Yui says
You would look at Steve like he’s a little crazy and extreme to do all this for this dude he doesn’t seem to like very much when they are together…
Yui says
Edit: I’ve read some critics and what I was afraid of happened. All that no homo editing cut to much of Evans and now Cap is seen as more boring than ever. In his own movie. With such a good story line for him.
And the no homo didn’t work, lots of people see them as in love with each other.
You lost on two sides marvel.
Michael Samuel Miller Jr says
I don’t think Marvel lost so much as those imbecile critics taking a win where there wasn’t one. They’re trying to IMPOSE homosexuality where there never WAS anything remotely sexual. It’s like they can’t even conceive of an idea where two men are nothing more than seriously CLOSE FRIENDS. They’ve GROWN UP together, been through EVERYTHING together. Lost and suffered…well, not so much together but still on a deep level where they’d always support each other. But goodness, no! No SEXUAL ties? That just doesn’t compute. It’s the critics who lost for failing to see just how awesome a friendship like Cap and Buck’s really is on its OWN TERMS.
Yui says
If Bucky was a woman, they would be together since a looooooong time ago. All their story has the plot of a romantic relationship. They would make an amazing couple and friends.
But, even if you can see them only as close friends, you can’t tell me that civil war didn’t just cut this friendship out of the movie along with Evans. There’s nothing in civil war that makes sense if you don’t see a connection between Steve and Bucky. You have scenes for Tony and Rodney, but no parallels for Steve and Bucky.
Ilyone C says
This was EXACTLY my thoughts. They were so afraid of any gay subtext that the emotion got butchered and their friendship in Civil War feels cold and clinical. The NO HOMO flag suffocated me during the whole movie.
realityiwanted says
I don’t know why it has to be straight or gay. Steve could definitely be bisexual and he reads bi more than anything else. While Steve and Bucky had the most love for each other in Civil War the forced Steve/Sharon kiss was the biggest NO HOMO I’ve ever seen.
It undermined Steve’s love for Peggy and Bucky to have him kiss her when 1. Peggy’s body wasn’t even cold yet and 2. They’re still on the run trying to save Bucky! Civil War was a great movie but they definitely dialed down the homoeroticism because of gay panic. I was really over all the STEVE IS BUCKY’S DAD or wait NO THEY’RE BROTHERS garbage that was going on during the press tour. It is what it is, Marvel will never make it explicit but Steve and Bucky are the closest thing to queer representation in the MCU
Michael Samuel Miller Jr says
OR, they’re just two very close best friends who would support each other in the face of the greatest of odds. But that line of logic doesn’t compute for people who perceive EVERYTHING through homosexuality.
Biscuiteer says
In today’s atmosphere where everyone is arrogant, skeptical, and hotheaded with each other, they don’t understand friendship at all. They equate any kind of friendly gesture with homosexuality, because that is beaten into them through the media.
Chanmun says
Just like they do with heterosexuality, really, it’s pretty hurtful watching hero movies since if there’s a female in the cast, it’s for sexual/romance purposes. And in most movies, it’s near to impossible to avoid the ‘male and female can’t be just friends’. So, if there’s actually a complaint about people doing the same to same gender relationships, I see no wrong in those, but the whole ‘no two person together must have sexual tension’, because the only restraints they put usually is heteronormativity and family-incest-taboo. So it makes sense that for not heternormative nor taboo-ed persons, all relationships can be read as the rest of the people read male/female relationships.
The real problem would be to equate romance/love to just a plain sexual, attraction thing, when it’s mostly friendship with more skinship than usual. And not even, there’s still fuck-friends and so. Problem is not reading Steve x Bucky, it’s reducing the relationship to just an attraction, to just sexuality, when it can be those and more.
plumbucky says
we all deserve biromantic demisexual steve rogers together with panromantic bisexual bucky barnes its the 21st century get with the times
cherrybomb says
steve and bucky give off a brothers vibe but he sure does have great chemistry with sam
no reason steve can’t be bisexual
Riana says
The bisexuality erasure is strong with this interview. Seriously, neither the interviewer nor Chris even acknowledges bisexuality as another possibility. And if either of them had bothered looking into it, they would see that bisexual Steve is actually the way that most stucky shippers interpret. Literally none of us overlook the fact that he was in love with Peggy. It really ticks me off that they all seem to think that us seeing a possible romance between Bucky and Steve means that we misread or ignored what they were trying to portray with Steve and Peggy. We KNOW he was in love with Peggy, jeez. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have developed feelings for Bucky somewhere down the line. I think they should just stop discussing this period because it’s only revealing their ignorance and how out of touch they are with the fandom more and more.
Oliver Davis says
Cheers for the comment Riana. In my defence – this was in a roundtable format, so we couldn’t really delve into the complexities of things. I was battling with 10 other journalists to get questions in.
Thaís Verena says
Oh man, what a waste of a good emotional story. The greatest man in MCU (Steve Rogers) isn’t allowed to be emotional towards the most important person in his life. What a message you’re sending, Marvel. What a message.
Liv says
Too bad marvel is so afraid. Bucky and Steve could’ve a romance of the century. They have so many romantic story lines usually found in epic love stories like the long lost love separated by memory loss, war and even amnesia. The actors have great chemistry too, they are such a power couple. Maybe one day Marvel sees the rich story they have in their hands and stop trying to force undeveloped heterosexual boring couples with zero chemistry that come out of nowhere.
John Brian says
You are disgusting. I would never let my kids watch these movies if someone was gay!
Дохлый Номер says
It’s hilarious how they think it must be either this or that. Either gay or straight, in love with either Peggy or Bucky. No, dude, human sexuality and emotions can be a little more complicated, we’re not computers, we don’t run on a binary code.
Eeva says
They’re not gay.
Steve loves Bucky, but he’s not in love with him and vice versa. They’re best friends and brothers. The action scenes are breathtaking, but some of the best moments are between Steve and Bucky. They don’t even have to speak and it’s still a great scene. Seb and Chris have a great chemistry, but it doesn’t automatically mean gay.
Not again. says
Steve and Bucky together romantically would be a lot of things: 1. a brave move from Marvel; 2. representative and important, with a world-level impact; 3. a positive game changer for lgbt people; 4. good characters’ developement; 5. actually interesting to watch and 6. a thousand more important things. But we all know that lgbt people don’t exist in the MCU, Marvel isn’t brave, Hollywood has its head far up its own xxx and things are not going to change, so it’s never going to happen.
John Brian says
NO it would be disgusting and gross! I would never let my children watch homo romance in comic book heros! You are disgusting! Homosexuality is a sin!!!
Gary@FlickeringMyth says
Kindly take your bigoted views elsewhere.
Snoggler says
Steve and Bucky is probably the most idealised and understated bromance I’ve seen on screen for a while. I don’t feel there’s sexual tension there, but it’s a plus cos it’s so pure and tender. Some of the comments are angry about Disney pigeonholed Steve Rogers’ sexuality, but being romantic doesn’t make a relationship better, most of it is just lust and ego anyway.
Дохлый Номер says
So you’re saying a romantic relationship is somehow worse than a platonic one?
Snoggler says
Actually yes. It’s largely physical attraction, it doesn’t last, it’s irrational, people have romantic feelings often before they actually know jackshit about each other. Fraternal relationships are more stable.
Bee says
One thing to remember is that many great romantic relationships in reality work so well because people are in a relationship with their best friend who they also have an attraction to. Romantic relationships don’t have to be purely romantic- two people can be close friends and also in love with each other. They aren’t completely separate.
Snoggler says
thank you for acknowledging that the depth in a romantic relationship is actually the friendship. You’re just agreeing with me that the romantic aspect doesn’t add anything extra. So stop acting like being “romantic” is some holy grail in shipping war or it has more “something” than bromance/brolove/platonic love. Srsly fuck romance, be it hetero or homo, both are unnecessary.
Bee says
You seem to be very cynical about romance. I was actually saying that both are important, but that romance can be reinforced by friendship. It adds a different dynamic to the relationship. It may not be more than platonic love, but that doesn’t make it less. A lot of people think that the relationship between two characters, in this case Cap and Bucky, can be interpreted in different ways, and romance is one of them, but the friendship isn’t lost there. Nobody is saying they aren’t friends, just that they also think there’s a different sort of love there as well. But that’s the point of “shipping”, to have different opinions on the relationships of different characters, and it’s not going to hurt anyone to have different opinions, especially when these characters are fictional and therefore exist for everyone who reads/watches them.
Snoggler says
hmm…I’m cynical about romance? that’s rich coming from tumblr “SJW” shippers who’re cynical about hetero romance. At least I’m fair, I hate shipping of all kinds. If you people are as open minded about “interpretation” as you say, why’re you upset Chris Evans’ interpretation of the character dynamic doesn’t agree with your headcanon? and why’re 99.9% of shipping involve romantic interpretation if it’s not considered superior to platonic? are you guys really that hungry for some fictional romance?
Bee says
Who said I’m from tumblr? Who are “you people?” I don’t understand why you generalize, people enjoy relationships from shows and movies no matter where they’re from. It’s called being a viewer. I can enjoy heterosexual romance stories as well as homosexual ones, because I enjoy romance in general. You seem to be the one cynical about romance of all kinds, including heterosexual. I never said I was upset about Chris’s interpretation. He’s an actor, he’s going to interpret it the way he’s been told. I think more people here are upset about the fact that lately Marvel as a whole has been downplaying the importance of Bucky and Steve’s relationship. In Empire magazine’s review of CW, the critic couldn’t understand why Steve would go through all the trouble to protect Bucky, and in comments I’ve read online, people who haven’t seen the previous Cap movies also don’t understand. The relationship was very restricted this time around. This is upsetting, in addition to the fact Chris seems to think people didn’t realize Steve’s love for Peggy, when it was very apparent. It’s the fact that there was only the inclusion of either straight or gay, with no other options. Lastly, fictional romance plays a huge role in a lot of fictional works. So it’s only natural that people wonder who they like their favorite characters with.
Snoggler says
Being a viewer doesn’t necessarily mean they will enjoy relationships in show, some people hate romance in shows, you’re just generalizing. How do you know that’s not Evans’ own interpretation? but simply “what he’s told”? you’re lying, you just made this up. Calling their relationship no romantic isn’t downplaying their relationship, plenty of men love their bros more than their wives. It’s not downplaying, it’s the exact opposite actually. I don’t get what you’re trying to say with the empire comments, cos to me that means the writers expect people to come into this movie knowing how the fuck is Bucky, having watched the previous two films. They didn’t see the need to iterate isn’t the same as downplaying. What Evans said simply meant he thinks Steve and Peggy are romantic love, Steve and Bucky are not. cos people asked him if he thought his love for Bucky is also romantic. If diversity in sexuality is so important to you, why watch superhero action flick where romance is few and half assed? even if other sexuality is represented, it’d almost certainly be as lazy and lame as the hetero romance, you want “representation” like that? Nah, I don’t think romance plays a huge role in superhero genre. I know plenty of dudes who aren’t interested in what batman, their favourite superhero, ends up with at all, and think he’s probably gay for Robin anyway and he’s dead. You’re wrong if you think everyone is a thirsty shipper.
Bee says
I just think that if there’s going to be a romance, it SHOULDN’T be “half-assed”, as you said. Two characters with significant development and a clear portrayal of their love for each other would be a great romance. I wish there were less half-assed romances in films like this, because it would add a great dynamic to the story. I don’t think everyone is a “thirsty shipper”, I know a lot of people personally that don’t understand it, and that’s okay. I just think people should also be allowed to view characters and relationships in their own way. And if a lot of people do that and it gets brought up in an interview, this is where we end up. I don’t really want to spend more time and energy on this because we’ll only go around in circles, we obviously have different views on the matter.
Snoggler says
It’s an action movie, romance is just fanservice, a kiss would do. I mean look at Twilight, the action is cringe worthily half assed, cos that’s not even the point of the story.. People shoudn’t expect romance to be well done in every genre. Romance doesn’t necessarily add anything. You can have the same emotional development for character by writing them loving their friends, family, rivals, protege. You’re allowed to view relationship any way you want, but so is Chris Evans, he doesn’t agree with your headcanons doesn’t mean you can attack him. personally I still believe people who only ship romantically are just thirsty. I think I know why people ship bromance romantically cos there’s a level of understanding, loyalty, equality in bromance that are superior to romance. I think they’re just jelly bromance is better than romance.
Egan May says
My question is this: Is anyone ever going to ask about Cap maybe being bisexual? That would account for Steve clearly caring about Peggy.The media always forgets liking the opposite gender not necessarily ruling out liking people of the same gender.
Liberty says
Why does modern culture always have to go there??? Can’t two men have a strong relationship and love each other without it being sexual? They are like brothers and ask they have left. It’s really sad you can’t have make characters love and support each other in a platonic way. It’s hateful, really.
Not again. says
You mean like 99.99999 % of every story EVER told, right? Because hetero male friendship is so underrepresented and original it must be protected at all costs, right? 99.999999% of every media ever is about this but it’s not enough. Poor little abused thing.
Дохлый Номер says
“Why does modern culture always have to go there???” – are you kidding me, pop culture never goes there, which is precisely the problem. It’s always bromance, never romance.
Mani Moore says
I do see a love story between Steve & Bucky but more one of brothers, it plays like they love each other but not that they are in love with each other to me. Totally thought Steve was flirting with Sam in TWS and that Sam was playing his love interest so the bi angle worked for me.
Civil War was great but missed some emotional beats, too much an Avengers 2.5 movie as opposed to a Cap movie. Would have loved to have seen a real Cap 3 movie with Steve, Sam & Bucky. Sam & Bucky have great chemistry in CW, but it was largely played for laughs, Sam’s a War vet, a VA counsellor with experience of PTSD none of that was explored, neither was Bucky reclaiming of himself and as for that mid credit scene, totally misplaced. That scene deserved much more time and thought given to it.
Ilyone C says
I know he probably won’t read it but here is my open answer to Chris Evans :
Dear Chris Evans,
I respect you immensely as an actor. But on May, 1st, you gave an interview to Flickering Myth that deeply hurt my feelings, and I have to write openly about it, even though you probably won’t ever read this letter.
Most of us who had been so touched, surprised and felt empowered by all the strong, emotional choices that were put into the Winter Soldier. We knew Captain America would never be officially bi or gay, but having it open to interpretation like the Russos initially promised was enough, was a step in the right direction.
Then Civil War came out and it’s difficult not to notice that everything in the editing choices has been made to tone down the emotional intensity between Steve and Bucky, to the point that even their friendship feels… unconvincing in the context of all the pressure surrounding it. So yeah, the message was pretty clear.
But for you to validate Marvel’s unspoken statement by apologizing about your acting being open to interpretation, about it being a mistake ? Or using Steve’s love for Peggy as an excuse ? You know bisexuality is a valid sexuality, right ? One of my favorite quote from Captain America is this one “When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree by the river of truth, and tell the whole world ‘No, You Move.” Well, I know you are the not the Cap, but I still felt so let down by your interview, like all of us in the LGBTQA+ don’t exist, don’t matter, and it hurts.
So I know, it was pretty naïve of me to put any faith in such a mainstream media. But still. Today is the day Steve Rogers let me down.
Numanuma says
I mean this very gently but I would say that interviews are quick and actors don’t always think of an answer right off in that vein. I’m sure no offence was meant (I say that as a very comfortable bisexual).
Point here is, regardless not whether it’s read as romantic or bromantic, Civil War neutralised both. They barely spoke and when they did it was very surface level, not in depth or anything logical to the circumstances. The movie isn’t bad it just isn’t a Cap movie. Evans had no chance to shine and Stan was present but not able to explore anything, as he pretty much just had fight scenes. Poor show.
Ilyone C says
I know, but in the context of all the queer baiting in the first promo conferences, this backpedaling sets me off. I’m sure Chris Evans as a person is not responsible for this, but this article was kind of the nail in the coffin for me and I wanted to express it. I totally agree with you by the way, I would have been very happy with emotional friendship giving character development to Steve and Bucky. That they didn’t have it in a Cap movie just because Marvel was scared of the Gayness makes me angry.
Aleisha Colleen says
amazingly bisexuality is a thing??
ChazM says
No. That’s stupid. Two men can feel deep love for each other without it being sexual, especially if they’re friends who’ve been through a lot together as Steve and Bucky have. No romance necessary.
Дохлый Номер says
Noone is saying romance is necessary. But they are desperately shutting down even the possibility of their relationship being interpreted this way by saying it must be a mistake on the actor’s part, by editing the movie in a way that reduces the emotional depth of their relationship, etc etc. Mostly they are just hurting their own product by it.
Snoggler says
Chris Evans didn’t say it’s a mistake, he just said that’s not part of his approach. There’s lots of editing between trailers and the movie. It’s not always about ships, you just assume they’re cos that’s what you care. They’re already the relationship with the most depth ffs, what more depth does it need….
Clover Lovegood says
Please!!
The relationship between Steve and Bucky is too strong.
They are understood to perfection each other and have been together all their lives.
Captain America movies have shown us that Steve would give his life for Bucky and Bucky for Steve. THAT’S LOVE! …The feeling has always been there!!!
perhaps in ancient times it would have looked bad the relationship between two men. And I think that would be the only thing that stopped them. Now people are more tolerant. Then Steve and Bucky could have a chance to be happy together. I think they do have a future together.
And I really think the relationship between Steve and Sharon was too weird and out of place. And it was not the time. He had not even shown interaction between the characters before. It was a kiss too weird and out of place.
That is just my opinion.
But everyone could see it.
Digg says
I’m really tired of people (media primarily, like this interviewer) saying “Fans think he’s gay.” Most fans think he’s bisexual. That is an important detail to include when talking about this subject. Chris DID do his job, most fans see how much he cared for Peggy, it’s just that they also don’t consider his sexuality to be locked in as exclusively straight. Sexuality is fluid and simplifying everything to ‘he has to be gay or straight’ is a toxic mentality and makes fans look delusional, and some are, but most aren’t.
Queen_Boudicca says
Someone let Chris Evans know that bisexuality is a thing that exists. Just because Steve loved Peggy doesn’t mean that he also couldn’t love Bucky.
Becky Dawn Bean says
Why can’t people be okay with platonic soulmates? Romantic love is not the End All, Be All that everybody makes it out to be, and it is certainly not more important than platonic, familial, or any other type of love out there.
Michela says
Don’t play dumb, it’s obviously not that we’re not okay with platonic soulmates; it’s that we’re fed up with hetero being regarded as the default sexuality and with queerbaiting.
Snoggler says
why’re you so hang up on the sexuality of characters who aren’t shown to be bisexual or gay in the source material? why not just ask for original characters that are canonically gay/bisexual? If you’re truly some activists, campaign for original gay characters, instead of just asking for a gay/bisexual interpretation in adaptions….
Michela says
To answer your question (although I really don’t see how LGBT representation in adaptations is any less important/meaningful/legit than it would be in source material): 1. I wasn’t *actively* looking for LGBT representation in Steve/Bucky a priori, they just happened to register as not-necessarily-straight with me, simple as that. I’m curious as to why the idea of them being romantic soulmates bothers *you* that much, though.
2. I couldn’t care less about Marvel comics (and even within the MCU, the Cap ‘verse/franchise is the only one I truly care about), so the Cap movies don’t even *feel* like adaptations to me.
Snoggler says
I’m curious as to why the idea of them being platonic bromantic soulmates bothers YOU that much, tho. Cos I’m not the one who’s attacking an actor for expressing his own opinion on the character’s sexuality, the stucky shippers are the ones who can’t help but hate on any opinion that doesn’t agree with their headcanons.
As I said, if you truly care about representation, you’d want a LGBTA couples in the canon instead of an adaption which could be dismissed as non canon by the purists. I actually don’t think you care about LGBTA representation. You care about your ships being “real”. And any comments from actors or directors that don’t work in favour of your ships are arguments that can be used against your ships in shipping war.
I don’t think I asked if you care about the marvel comic, it’s irrelevant, cos movies ARE adaptation, whether you “feel” it or not.
Michela says
“I’m curious as to why the idea of them being platonic bromantic
soulmates bothers YOU that much, tho.”
If you’re just going to make up stuff to avoid my question, well, that’s fine by me: I’ve got my answer, I guess. For the record, though, I’m A-OK with Steve and Bucky being ‘platonic bromantic soulmates’ (see CA:TFA and CA:TWS) as long as TPTB don’t try to tone it down with no homo bullshit like the Staron kiss and the weird editing in CA:CW.
“Cos I’m not the one who’s attacking an actor for expressing his own opinion on the character’s sexuality”
That makes two of us, then. 🙂
“As I said, if you truly care about representation, you’d want a LGBTA couples in the canon instead of an adaption which could be dismissed as non canon by the purists.”
The problem with your assumption is that, again, I don’t care if the purists dismiss the MCU as non canon, that simply makes no sense to me. *shrug*
“I actually don’t think you care about LGBTA representation. You care about your ships being “real”.
You’re right in that I believe in art for art’s sake, so I definitely wouldn’t want to see Steve date, say, Tony or Sam just for the sake of LGBT+ representation; if they have to pair him up romantically, then I want that to be with someone that makes sense TO ME, which, within the context of the MCU, happens to be Bucky, who happens to be a guy.
“movies ARE adaptation, whether you “feel” it or not.”
What I meant is that the MCU should be seen as an AU, so I really don’t see why Cap couldn’t be straight in the comics and, say, bisexual or demisexual in the MCU.
Michela says
“I’m curious as to why the idea of them being platonic bromantic
soulmates bothers YOU that much, tho.”
If you’re just going to make up stuff to avoid my question, then I guess I’ve got my answer. *shrug* For the record, I am A-OK with Steve and Bucky being ‘platonic bromantic soulmates’ (see CA:TFA and CA:TWS) as long as TPTB don’t try to idiotically tone it down with no homo bullshit such as the Staron kiss and the frankly weird editing in CA:CW.
“Cos I’m not the one who’s attacking an actor for expressing his own opinion on the character’s sexuality”
That makes two of us, then. 🙂
“if you truly care about representation, you’d want a LGBTA couples in the canon instead of an adaption which could be dismissed as non canon by the purists.”
The problem with your assumption is that I don’t care whether the purists label the MCU as non canon, that makes no sense to me (see below).
“I actually don’t think you care about LGBTA representation. You care about your ships being “real”.”
You’re right in that I believe in ‘l’art pour l’art’, so no, I definitely wouldn’t want to see Steve date, say, Tony or Sam or Thor just for the sake of LGBT+ representation. If they have to pair him up romantically, then I want that to be with someone that makes sense TO ME, which, within the context of the MCU, happens to be Bucky; who happens to be a guy.
“cos movies ARE adaptation, whether you “feel” it or not.”
What I meant is that the MCU should be seen as an AU, so I really don’t see why Cap couldn’t be straight in the comics and bisexual or demisexual in the MCU.
Snoggler says
If you’re ok with them being platonic, what problem do you have with what Chris Evans said? You did attack him in the comments.
I’m gonna give you my answer, I have problem with all romantic relationship involving Steve Rogers, being it hetero or homoerotic, cos I don’t think his characters needs it, nor are they well done anyway.
So it’s all about shipping to you. Stucky makes sense to YOU, while Staron makes sense to OTHERS. It’s all down to a shipping war, it’s down to personal preferences over dynamics.
You can argue whatever you want in an AU, or in your fanfic, they’re NOT canon, they don’t mean shit in terms of representation. Let’s say a kid watched the movies, was happy there’s a gay superhero, but he could easily by shut down by someone who said it’s just a movie, the real Captain America is straight in the comic. And that’s NOT representation.
Michela says
My only problem with what Chris said is the fact that he seems to be unnecessarily doubting his own acting skills.
“So it’s all about shipping to you. Stucky makes sense to YOU, while
Staron makes sense to OTHERS.”
Well, duh. We ARE talking about Steve’s love interests, after all. AGAIN, I’d be OK with him not having a conventionally-defined romantic arch after Peggy (case in point: CATWS); if they have to give him one, however, OF COURSE I’ll root for the pairing that makes the most sense to/moves me and I’ll be annoyed by blatant queerbaiting (i.e. TPTB alternating between calling Stucky a ‘love story’ and dismissing it as a joke/a ‘safe’, brotherly relationship). Why is that so hard to understand?!
“they don’t mean shit in terms of representation” Um, did you miss ALL the parts where I said I didn’t care about Steve/Bucky in terms of LGBT+ representation? O.o There IS a difference between being fed up with queerbaiting + heteronormativity and wanting Stucky to be canon JUST for the sake of representation, you know.
And if you’re going to keep on insisting that the only Captain America people should care about (“he could easily by shut down by someone who said it’s *just a movie*, the *real* Captain America is straight in the comic”) is in the comics, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Snoggler says
That’s not what you said. You didn’t say anything about his self doubt until now, your problem with him was his comments about Steve Rogers’ sexuality.
Well duh, then I’m right you’re upset over nothing except some silly shipping war. Brolove isn’t a love story? They’re usually better love stories than romance.
I’m saying you don’t care about captain america the character, you care if he has a ship in his story that you like. If ships are what you people care and you’re vocal about it, of course you’re gonna get shipping teases thrown your way. And don’t act like victims because your ships are gay, hetero ships get the same bullshits, e.g. black widow x Steve rogers in cap 2
Michela says
“your problem with him was his comments about Steve Rogers’ sexuality.”
Except I never said that, but unfortunately I can’t stop you from making up stuff. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
“You didn’t say anything about his self doubt until now”
My point exactly. I didn’t even refer to Chris’ words in the comment you replied to. O.o
“your problem with him was his comments about Steve
Rogers’ sexuality.”
Again: LOL, sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. As if I hadn’t known that Chris ‘shipped’ Steggy (or Sebastian BuckyNat, for that matter)! At this point, I’m not sure whether you’re playing dumb/twisting my words on purpose or if you really are *that* naive.
“then I’m right you’re upset over nothing except some silly shipping war.”
Yes, of course, you’re always right. *patpat* Because, obviously, being upset over queerbaiting and heteronormativity = being upset over some silly shipping war. Right. Sorry, my bad. *headdesk*
“They’re usually better love stories than romance.”
That’s often true, I agree. That’s why, like I said, I thought CA:TWS didn’t suffer at all from lack of a conventional romantic sub-plot.
“I’m saying you don’t care about captain america the character, you care if he has a ship in his story that you like.”
Wow, way to put words in my mouth! I seriously hope you read books and newspapers with less of an inclination for flights of fancy than you’ve been doing with my comments.
“And don’t act like victims because your ships are gay, hetero
ships get the same bullshits, e.g. black widow x Steve rogers in cap 2”
Are you serious? So your whole tirade about platonic love between friends being important/valuable/compelling only applies to same sex #nohomo friends?! Gotta love the double standard! -_-
Also, feel free to enlighten me on how “hetero ships get the same bullshits”, please. .:grabs popcorn:.
Snoggler says
You upvoted every comment about “erasing bisexuality” in the comment section.
Chris Evans never said he shipped Steggy, I don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re putting words into his mouth.
You said you only care about Stucky cos it makes sense to YOU, you don’t care about other gay ships involving Steve. It’s all about your personal shipping preference, not heteronormativity. I know most Stucky shippers don’t want Stony to happen.
Of course straight ships get the same bullshits, Bruce x Natasha, and Steve x Natasha got 1 or 2 teases here than there, then they’re quickly abandoned in the next movie, they never become canon. I actually do think Steve and Natasha are better as a platonic and I’m very happy all they ever get is stupid teases. I hope that’s the case for all ships.
Michela says
Yes, I upvoted them, not because I actually believe Chris Evans doesn’t know about/approve of/whatever… bisexuality, but because, as a fan of his acting skills, it’s a bit frustrating for me to see him go to the point of doubting his own performance as Cap rather than simply stating (as Sebastian recently did) something along the lines of: “Look, that’s not how I see Steve’s relationship with Bucky, but everybody’s entitled to their own interpretation”, period.
Are you kidding me? He pretty much said that in this very interview, lol!
For the millionth time: 1. did you miss all the parts where I said I didn’t care about Steve/Bucky in terms of LGBT+ representation? And, more importantly, how there IS a difference between being fed up with queerbaiting + heteronormativity vs. wanting Stucky to be canon JUST for the sake of representation? 2. Yes, I definitely don’t want Stony to happen, just like I don’t want Steve/Thor, Bucky/Natasha, Steve/Sam, Bucky/Sam, Steve/Clint, Bucky/T’Challa, Steve/Natasha etc. etc. to happen, duh.
And I definitely don’t want to see Steve in a contrived gay relationship (like MCU!Stony, for instance, would feel like to me) just for the sake of representation. Just like I don’t want to see him in a contrived hetero relationship (like MCU!Staron feels like to me) because the hero has to have a token girlfriend.
Look, I get that you’re not interested in romance in movies (and, even though you keep choosing to conveniently ignore that, I’ve said it before that romance doesn’t necessarily have to be included in a movie for me to enjoy it); but why is it so hard for you to understand that IF I (like anybody else) have to sit through a romantic plot in a movie, I want it to be between characters who, IMHO, have romantic chemistry and whom I care about? I mean, I get that ships are interchangeable FOR YOU because you don’t care about *that* in a movie AT ALL, but people who also enjoy that aspect of a film will naturally (more or less passionately, I’ll give you that) ‘pick a side’. It’s called being opinionated. And, frankly, I think it would be arrogant of you to expect otherwise.
Snoggler says
those comments you upvoted mentioned nothing of his acting skills, but only about bisexuality.
Like I said, you’re just a shipper. And you’re not the only one’s being baited, all shipppers are baited including the hetero ones. There’s nothing homonormative about throwing baits to shippers. All of you deserve to be baited and denied. cos you’re more interested in the ships than the story.
hmm….You’re not asked to sit through a romantic plot in the movie, there’s no romantic plot in cap 3. There’s no “IF”, it’s not there.
I’m arrogant? you people are the ones who’re attacking an actor for having an opinion on his character. You said you’re just being opinionated, but Chris Evans can’t even have an opinion about something he’s much more involved in than you people, without being attacked cos his opinion doesn’t fit with your headcanons.
FOR YOU, shipping is the most interesting thing in these movies. For other people, they’re silly. You can be passionate about shipping as much as you want, but I can dismiss shipping and romance as much as I want too. FOR YOU, you think your ships have to be respected, but for me, you already disrespect the franchise when you care about non existent “romance” more than the plot.
Michela says
“cos you’re more interested in the ships than the story.”
I hate to break it to you, but just because YOU don’t care about them, it doesn’t mean that romantic relationships (potential or otherwise) are not part of The Story. See, it’s stuff like this (‘you’re JUST a shipper’, ‘you don’t care about the story’) that makes you sound arrogant and self-righteous; not to mention the fact that you try to make it look like viewers who also happen to be shippers ONLY EVER care about The Ship, when YOU decided to engage in conversation in the comment section to an article which is, in fact, about shipping, lol. Like, why even bother if you don’t care about romance in movies one way or another? I guess trolling discussions about ‘the story’ just isn’t as much fun, is it?
“hmm….You’re not asked to sit through a romantic plot in the movie, there’s no romantic plot in cap 3. There’s no “IF”,
it’s not there.”
Hmm, I get that they were so dull and contrived it’s easy to forget they were there in the first place, but did you miss the Steve/Sharon scenes?
“Chris Evans can’t even have an opinion about something he’s much more involved in than you people, without being attacked cos his opinion doesn’t fit with your headcanons.”
He was ‘attacked’ because he (or the journalist did) worded his opinion in a way that made some people who care about ships in terms of LGBT+ representation feel like he was endorsing bisexuality erasure.
“but for me, you already disrespect the franchise when you care about non existent “romance” more than the plot.”
Never mind the fact that, again, it’s incredibly arrogant of you to ‘decide’ what other people are more or less interested in when it comes to a certain franchise; it’s just plain sad how you can’t accept that people enjoy/turn to movies for a variety of equally worthy reasons. Especially considering MCU plots are not the be all and end all of storytelling.
Snoggler says
You quoted me saying “more interested in the ships”, then you try to pretend I said “ONLY EVER” care about ships How’s up with that? you clearly know what I said and still decided to twisted into something else and put it in all cap??? What’re you doing?
There was a kiss in the winter soldier too, so? There’s no romantic relationship between Steve and Sharon in the movie, and the kiss just happened, that’s it. unless you think any random kiss between 2 people is the same thing as a romantic relationship, the movie has no romance, it only has teases.
nah, the media didn’t twist his words, they did provide his quotes. You’re just shifting the blame to the media cos “I attacked him but I was misled by the media” sounds better.
“it’s incredibly arrogant of you to ‘decide’ what other people are more or less interested in when it comes to a certain franchise; it’s just plain sad how you can’t accept that people enjoy/turn to movies for a variety of equally worthy reasons. Especially considering MCU plots are not the be all and end all of storytelling.”
I can accept you’re mostly in it for the ships, that’s actually what I said many times. And you can turn to movies for worthy or unworthy reasons….but I don’t have to respect that preference, just like I don’t have to respect people’s preferences for transformers’ juvenile humor.
I am arrogant in this conversation but that’s intentional cos I find you very arrogant and rude when you attacked an actor for having an opinion about his character under the pretense of SJW crusade when in fact your real beef with him was his take on the character doesn’t support your ship. He didn’t say anything problematic or offensive, and to think you overreacted to it and actually attacked him like he’s anti LGBT over some fictional ship is just…wow
I do agree MCU movies’ plots are mediocre and predictable. But their so called “romance” be it canon or simply imagined by the fanbase are way way worse. It just seems to me while you do have some standards for the plots, you have no standards for the romance.
Ashley Vytiaco Unabia says
I think Marvel was originally going for bisexual Steve Rogers. You could practically see it in the comics, the way the creators way back in the 40’s created Steve and Bucky’s characters. The bond they shared was way beyond platonic but never clearly stated as romantic. Even in the comics, literally Cap’s impulse on everything nine times out of ten was because of Barnes. Not many people could recognize this though so they just mostly brushed it off as two friends being ‘bros’. But you gotta admit, ‘bros’ didn’t act this way. This is way, way too intimate. This sort of also explains why they chose Brooklyn as the origin of these two which was during their time, the area in New York with the most LGBT-friendly environment. Even Ed Brubaker saw Steve and Buck’s relationship as way more than BFF’s and has stated that he approves of ‘stucky’. I think the gay panic and the forced no homo stunts they pulled was Disney’s request, since they bought Marvel only on 2009. It still disorients me how they deliberately ignored decades upon decades of a carefully developed chemistry and dynamic between these two poor souls. They were separated for seventy years, the least they could do was to allow them to hug that lasts more than ten seconds. But nope, they’re too afraid of introducing minorities for that.
Ashley Vytiaco Unabia says
For all those people like me who question Marvel/Disney as to why they’re so afraid of even making Cap and Bucky look like they’re more than friends, brothers-whatever, just look at this comment section alone. So many people immediately shut down this possibility with such strong disbelief and some even borderline disgust to the point where it’s actually offensive to us who think otherwise.
Eli Monroe says
*whispers* bisexuality exists
Michael Samuel Miller Jr says
OF COURSE it was all sexual. I mean…who’s ever heard of platonic and deep friendship between two men without SEX and romantic attraction? [/sarcasm]
Fletch says
I feel very sorry for this generation, who simply cannot conceive of two men having affection for one another (and yes, loving one another), without it being romantic or sexual. Look at people like Abraham Lincoln and Joshua Speed, who boarded together and even shared a bed together. it was not sexual. Or of David and Jonathan in the Bible, or Bilbo and Sam from Lord of the Rings. Look at songs like ‘He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother’, or the relationships that men form toward one another in the armed services – these ‘band of brothers’.
It’s very sad that people have to make two men gay for them to have affection for one another. This gay ideology is part of the reason that the relationships between men as friends are not as strong as they used to be. Men are now afraid to put an arm around one another for fear of being seen as gay. The gay propaganda is fracturing relationships in society.
Michela says
You’d be right if we wanted, say, Steve to date Bucky AND Sam, Tony to date Rhodey AND Bruce etc. etc. all at the same time.
John Brian says
This is so dam gross. We shouldn’t even be talking about this. They are NOT GAY! and should never be! No one should be calling for it either! GROSS!! PISS OFF all of you FAGGOTS!
Katie.P says
If you put this concept into its larger in-universe context, there is a compelling case for Steve Rogers to at least spend some time in the questioning zone of the LGBTQ spectrum. Growing up in the 1930’s and 40’s, Steve may not have been aware of homosexuality, and if he was, he likely would have been exposed to a negative view of it. The social norms of the time were highly heteronormative, so Steve, Bucky, and their peers would be encultured/expected to pursue romantic relationships with women (aka “skirt chasing”). In the first Captain America movie, both pre-serum and post-serum Steve struggled socially, especially when interacting with women. The woman he eventually developed an attraction towards, Agent Peggy Carter, defied the norms for women of her time, displaying what would be considered masculine traits including working in a nearly all-male environment as an equal to the men. However, social awkwardness is an affliction experienced by people of all gender identities and sexual orientations, so Steve’s awkwardness doesn’t mean that much. Fast forward 70 years, and Steve Rogers wakes up in a completely different world than the one he left. Nearly everyone he knew is now dead. While Steve has been frozen in time, Peggy and the rest of his peers have travelled through the last 7 decades. With the mind and body of a young man, he reunites with an aged, frail woman. Peggy is also the last vestige of the world he left behind, so of course he clings to her. At the same time, cultural norms have shifted dramatically. Steve slept through the baby boom, the sexual revolution, civil rights, and the war on drugs, among other movements. Homosexuality is now openly discussed, and is largely accepted. Moreover, with the marriage equality debate of the early to mid 2010’s there was no way Steve could avoid the topic. Jump ahead to Winter Soldier and Steve finds out that Bucky is not only still alive but also around the same age he is. Bucky is also the only person in the world who can actually understand what Steve is going through. Steve would naturally feel an intense need to reunite with Bucky. Steve may also wonder about the nature of this need to reunite with Bucky. He might question his sexuality. Bucky would probably have similar thoughts. What might each man conclude?
Sexuality is fluid.
Steve and Bucky clearly love each other.
Love doesn’t need to be defined.
DRush76 says
Why does Marvel fandom constantly ignores Steve Rogers’ friendship with Sam Wilson? Is Sam simply the wrong color to be considered a friend of Steve’s? People talk about Steve’s friendship with Bucky Barnes. They talk about his shaky relationship with Tony Stark. Some people even pretend that Steve and Tony were close friends before the Sokovia Accords falling out. But people rarely talk about Steve and Sam’s friendship. Why?
Hi, says
Honestly I do believe Sam is a a really important role in Steves life, but I think he’s there as a support… And they do talk about him a lot to be honest he’s more like able thank tony… Seeing as I haven’t watched all the iron man movies. I do believe Sam Wilson will have a huge role in civil war 2 that is because as we can see from the comics Steve sadly dies ( he does come back tho keep that in mind ) so Bucky and Sam might become friends .. Just saying I’m not very experienced with reading into relations but that’s what I think soz…
Etheangel2220 says
This stupid society obsesses with some ridiculous things.